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Set Cap Limit Removal Annoucement

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AuthorMessage

Prism
Posted: 03 Jul, 2019 17:10
Last Edit: 03 Jul, 2019 17:13
, speaking as someone who has developed several RPG sets, I can say without a doubt that it is a terrible way to increase your developer stats. If I remain motivated and work non-stop, I can make an RPG set in a couple of months. Conversely, a Platforming set only takes a couple of weeks if the same amount of effort is being applied. In addition, people need to want to play the games for which you develop sets. Look at poor .

OmegaVideoGameGod
Posted: 03 Jul, 2019 20:44
Best of luck. :D

JAM
Posted: 04 Jul, 2019 01:57
I want to rescore this set. Played most of the games.

Alena
Posted: 07 Jul, 2019 22:45
I plan to re-scoring the sets I've worked on soon. It may take some time, but I'll try to balance it.

OmegaVideoGameGod
Posted: 08 Jul, 2019 00:30
Good luck :D

VerminSupreme
Posted: 10 Jul, 2019 12:08
Last Edit: 10 Jul, 2019 12:52
As if the site already did not have lots devs with god complexes. This gives their ego fuel. Set values are subjective. This is a very bad idea. We have many sets that get rushed out, not tested, broken. Many games not finished, but changing the whole scoring system instead now. What about the years many players spent getting them. We already have many issues with sets getting re-done on the whim of a power hungry dev. What the what? Does xbox and sony just randomly pick and choose what things are worth for their achievements, no they follow standards and practices. Come on now. Think McFly, think.

televandalist
Posted: 10 Jul, 2019 13:06
- The set cap removal was planned over six months ago and was approved by a vote.

- Anyone can be a dev with the right motivation and effort.

- Sure, set values are subjective. That's why the community as a whole is encouraged to get involved. Everyone has a say.

- New devs have their sets reviewed and tested by code reviewers and are not given full dev status until they meet several criteria.

- Many older sets get reworked and improved thanks to the revision process and dev events.

- Comparing to Sony and Microsoft is pointless. How many achievements and trophies are unobtainable due to servers closing?

Anyone can be as involved as they want to be. It sounds like you either showed up just to complain or you have a bone to pick with someone in particular.

kdecks
Posted: 10 Jul, 2019 18:01
Last Edit: 10 Jul, 2019 18:57
VerminSupreme, I'm glad you care to bring up your concerns here.


To clarify what televandalist said the set cap removal vote was held by active developers and the vote scored in at 28 for, 1 against.


>sets re-done on the whim of a power hungry dev

ALL revisions need to be presented as a detailed plan publicly in the forum. The revision is inspected and reviewed by the active developers, and anyone is free to bring their complaints or suggestions to the forum once the revision is proposed. Often a revision plan will lead to long discussions or debate by developers in Discord. It culminates in a developer vote which will decide if the revisions is approved or denied. Often the dev presenting the plan will make changes that are more suitable by recommendation of other developers and community members. Usually revisions plans are approved, but not always.

>Does xbox and sony just randomly pick and choose what things are worth for their achievements, no they follow standards and practices.

We also have standard practices, set score tiers is an expansion of those practices, so that player effort is more evenly rewarded set by set. (Certainly it will never perfectly even, which likely an impossible goal.)
--------------------

You should always feel free to bring up your concerns about RA or your complaints, what you think is working and what isn't working. The staff and devs are doing their best to bring RA forward in a positive direction; community concerns help us know better what needs to improve; clarify misunderstandings, explain reasoning, answer questions and address what needs to change.

But... continuing on subjects not related to the Set Cap here would be off topic.

If you want to further discuss developer standard practices you can take it here: [url= https://retroachievements.org/viewtopic.php?t=7259 ]Developer Code of Conduct announcement[/url)

If you want to discuss revisions further you can do it here: initial announcement, but the policies have changed some since that time.

or here: A recent thread where users are bringing up topics they think might be holding RA back, such as concerns with revisions, completion badges, bonus sets, and so on).

Or if you have other concerns feel free to find a related topic or open a new one.

OmegaVideoGameGod
Posted: 10 Jul, 2019 23:07
I feel we should embrace the change too many games are easier and longer than others to be worth the same amount of points.

ShadwSonic
Posted: 12 Jul, 2019 18:06
This will probably make scoring harder for devs come to think of it... Balancing cheevs in the same game in relation to each other is rather simple, but balance against cheevs in other games, even other genres? That would be far too random most of the time, since we'd almost literally be comparing apples and oranges.
True, it would be better in the theoretical than the 400 point system, but... maybe, instead of removing the idea of set limits entirely, it would be better to have one based on "average completion time", i.e. longer games having a higher total to work with, but a set max amount still being derivable? Not sure how ROMhacks would work with that idea, but it sounds better to me than trusting the peoples' sense of difficulty. I know for a fact that mine is terribly biased towards thinking things are easier than they are, for instance, and so haven't trusted myself to assist in the rescoring effort.

ShadwSonic
Posted: 12 Jul, 2019 18:08
That being said... I'm fairly confident that Super Mario 74 is underscored, given the notable difficulty increase from SM64 proper. Especially since some tasks currently assigned to SM64's Bonus Set have analogues in SM74's main set.

kdecks
Posted: 12 Jul, 2019 20:11
Last Edit: 12 Jul, 2019 20:13
@ Difficulty isn't the only factor that devs and users should consider when scoring. When scoring consider all the factors and your own wits to determine what you feel is best. (Yea it will never be perfect.. apple to oranges is right)

Average completion time is a good indicator as well. You can use this spreadsheet to give you an estimate of the average time to master the set. (With no surprise that RPGs usually take the longest.)

Set Stats for Nerds
Includes: age of set, total number of players, current set score, number of times mastered, mastery rate, mean time to master in hours:minutes, minutes per 1 point, minutes per 1 point to master)

I will add a rescore sheet for SM74 where you can input the score you believe it deserves.

OmegaVideoGameGod
Posted: 13 Jul, 2019 01:28
Last Edit: 13 Jul, 2019 01:29
Being someone who has played a lot of games, a lot of them I had yet to go back and 200% will say we should always be careful how we value these points, the more achievements and the more difficult they are the more points should be awarded. We should be inspired to keep adding to this wonderful website. :) I'll do my best on my end to revalue all the games I can.

JAM
Posted: 13 Jul, 2019 12:04
- The set cap removal was planned over six months ago and was approved by a vote.
I liked this idea at first (in theory) but now I'm disappointed when I started to revalue my sets. You guys are mad about these tiers. If in compare with other achievements in the same set which worth 10 and 25 points there is achievement in difficulty just between these 2 groups why I should have a headache how to value it? I'd just give it 15, 20 or even 17 points if there were no fixed points.

LockDown2341
Posted: 14 Jul, 2019 13:57
Anyone who thinks this is a "very bad idea" seems to have no clue what they're talking about. Sorry. This is probably the best idea I've seen on the site in the year or so I've been a member. In fact the limit of 400 was always one of my main gripes.

You also have to realize Microsoft basically did away with it themselves years ago. There was always a hard cal of 1000 or 400, depending on the game. Nowadays you see games go much higher then that. There's nothing wrong with different games having different totals. As long as they're all divisible by 5, 10, etc.
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