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Set Cap Limit Removal Annoucement

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kdecks
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 07:58
Last Edit: 16 Jul, 2019 05:39
|Official Announcement|

⭐The Rescoring Contributor Community Event is active. (14 July — 28 July) Link. (Details are in the second post of the thread.)

For anyone who's been a player for long on RA it's obvious that all points are not created equal. Some achievement sets take very little effort for "free points" and others are blisteringly difficult and reward the same 400 points for mastering the set.

We aim to improve on this problem in a major way. It's worth saying now that the balance we seek will never be perfect, but in the long run you should and will be awarded points much more fairly while earning achievements.

Lots of developer discussion (ongoing for years really) and planning, and we are going forward. The set cap, a point limit of 400 points per set has been removed entirely. In it's place we have a tiered scoring that examines each individual achievment, re-evaluated by devs and you, the community.

Achievement Scoring Tiers
0-5 Easy / Minor Significance
10 Medium / Intermediate Significance
25 Hard / Major Significance
50 Very Hard / Completion Level Significance
100 Impossible (for bonus sets)

All achievement devs are expected to use the newscoring system when publishing new sets.

kdecks
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 08:02
Last Edit: 03 Jul, 2019 23:08
⭐We need your help in re-scoring!

Our goal is to get a baseline of how popular sets and important sets from genres should be scored. We are doing this by asking many players to share how they feel a set should be scored, and then compare the results. We will only do this for a short time and we need community involvement.

Your help will have a big impact!

Visit this thread for details on helping out with set rescoring
Master Sheet of all sets rescored

kdecks
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 08:21
Last Edit: 29 Jun, 2019 23:34
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Gamechamp
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 15:54
Personal suggestion: I'd love if there was still at least a standard for total game scores to be in multiples of 50. I know it's not the biggest deal, but seeing SMW with a max total of 558 feels off. If games are worth multiples of 50 points, that would also guarantee the maximum total combining Normal and Hardcore is always a multiple of 100.

Hotscrock
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 15:58
Most of players score are not round. I see no reason to force to increase or decrease an achievement value just to make round numbers.

outrun
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 17:57
How 'bout medals rather than points? like the trophy system on playstation network (gold, silver and bronze)? it's seems to suit perfectly on that new system of achievements.

televandalist
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 21:18
The point values for PSN trophies (15, 30, 90, 180) was an inspiration for the point tiers that are being implemented. If they end up heading in the direction of medals or what have you, there wouldn't be complaints from me.

Personally I prefer something like that over "just a really big number.'

Apostila
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 21:27
Last Edit: 28 Jun, 2019 21:37
Great, finally!

I'm excited to sent how much i can.

I'm tired to start a game and see ever 400 points since the really important are white points

Gamechamp
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 21:58
@Hotscrock
While individual players' total scores are rarely round, their scores on a completed game, up till now, have almost always been satisfying rounded multiples of 100. Providing a clear point total for the goal of 100% completion is generally more satisfying than a seemingly random jumble of numbers that happened to accidentally come out as the sum.

On forcing increases/decreases: the subjective nature of difficulty means there can never be a precisely "correct" score for an achievement. The minimal changes necessary to round a set to the nearest 50 should not necessarily require any achievement to be distinctly misvalued.

Though, I will admit, this wouldn't be compatible with the set-in-stone tier system if the game doesn't have many Easy achievements.

JAM
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 22:20
Last Edit: 28 Jun, 2019 22:21
I'm not really like and fully understand that tiers idea. It's like you can't do some stuff in USA if you're 20.9999 years old but you can if you're 21.0001 years old because you'll achieve the adult tier at 21. The range would be better. Not just 10, 25 or 50 points for beating the last boss damageless using default weapon, but the range of 10-50 with any value available in it. Because even if talk about some 10 point achivements to new system, some of them would be significally harder that others but still don't worth 25 points.

I'm glad that there'll be no cap but IMHO better and easier solution could be just make global leaderboards base on white points.

About the medals. We have our own unique system. Why just look at PSN and do thing like they're doing?

kdecks
Posted: 28 Jun, 2019 22:29
Last Edit: 28 Jun, 2019 22:32
@GameChamp, I totally get where you're coming from, it is plenty more satisfying to end scores with a round number and it follows a tradition of some achievement scoring systems, like Xbox live.

The way I it there's always a trade off, the trade off here losing the round number but gaining better score balance between sets.

About subjectivity of scoring, you are right, which is why we are encouraging for the most amount of contributors to rate sets. As they do diligently it will become less of a subjective score and more of an educated, collective score.


@JAM you bring some interesting views. I will pursue them further.

YoshiPokemon80
Posted: 29 Jun, 2019 02:25
Last Edit: 29 Jun, 2019 04:18
Wow

Braek
Posted: 29 Jun, 2019 09:35
Last Edit: 29 Jun, 2019 09:36
Interesting to see people that care about white points, while I don't care one bit about them and never looked at them

I guess the ranking with white points would be more significant as being part of the community and comparing yourself with other players since their amount is based on the rarity of the achievements that people earned, thus maybe it means a little more than blue point, since whites are the result of simple mathematics.

That said, I have always seen the blue points as a good way to see the amount of time you have worked/played across many games to earn them, thus having more truth in them than white points. However, all this isn't taking in account the big "inequality" in achievement sets, like some people call them "free points" especially compared to really hard achievements (which could be moved to bonus sets which could be a good idea to make comparable achievements sets).

If the system (achievement sets) was perfect, then I think blue points would be more significant and definitely better than white points.

In the meantime, feel free to tell me why exactly the white points would be better.I must say I'm a culprit on picking and choosing a game based on the fact that getting 200% and the badge is doable, and maybe having the white points becoming the main points would make me not do that anymore ?

Sorry if that's bad english or if that's a bit off-topic

JAM
Posted: 29 Jun, 2019 12:51
You can judge the set difficulty looking at white points only. For 400 points set (approximately):
400-500: very easy
500-750: easy
750-1000: medium
1000-1500: hard
1500+: very hard

Problem with 400 points cap is if I want to cover all aspects of some advanced game and create a set with 140 achievements in it then I have to set 2-3 points to every achievement. In the same time I can create set for easy game with 20 achievements and they worth the same 400 points although this set will take 10x less time to master. So, even with 400 points cap limit first set (140 achievements) will have about 2000 white points and second set (20 achievements) will have about 500 white points.

Salsa
Posted: 29 Jun, 2019 15:36
Last Edit: 29 Jun, 2019 15:41
Those point tiers were appointed on along with sort of emblem system in mind, to count how many achievement of each kind the player have earned (eventual V2 feature), but those could be easily extended I guess (I have included point ammounts for extended tiers). For example:

NES pack
1 point = starman from SMB (0-2)
5 points = rupee from Zelda (3-5)
10 points = rocket from Metroid (10, 15, 20)
25 points = tank from Mega Man (25, 30, 35)
50 points = medal from Contra (40, 45, 50)

SNES pack
1 point = tri force from Link to the Past
5 points = yoshi egg from SMW
10 points = teddy bear from Earthbound
25 points = energy tank from Super Metroid
50 points = sealed chest from Chrono Trigger

Sega pack
1 point = onigiri from Alex Kidd in Miracle World
5 points = ring from Sonic the Hedgehog
10 points = bomb from Contra: Hard Corps
25 points = angel wing from Shining Force
50 points = shuriken from Shinobi

This would mean extended tier list would consist of: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50.
Regardless the system was intended simple also for the global point reassignment to be generally easier.
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