Discussion about Fast Forward
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:44
Last Edit: 15 Mar, 2019 17:45
What's the point? I don't get it. FF doesn't give you invincibility, doesn't increase your stats, doesn't save your progress, it's just save your time. As I mention easrlier in places where you need use some skill FF doesn't give you any advantage. Or the achievement is : "Look, I spent 500 real time hours on the same repetitive actions!"?
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:45
Last Edit: 15 Mar, 2019 17:46
Maybe you should just not play games that you consider to be chores, such as light RPGs targeted at small children.
Completing a game involves sinking time into it, including "skill"-based titles. If making a joke of the time investment of legitimate players is anti-competitive, then it is anti-competitive regardless of genre.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:50
The difference is in a 'level select' environment, you don't have to replay levels (thus saving lives, continues, etc) and just start on the level you cheated for. If you are going to FF in those games, you still have to play through each level which means you're really just making it harder by making it faster. You aren't enabling yourself to do something you couldn't do normally in RPGs by fast forward, just enabling you to get it done faster and saving time. Spending 500 hours grinding the slow way doesn't equate to skill and is potentially against CoC for sets anyway.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:50
"And if you're midway through a dungeon in an old-school RPG, part of what determines your behaviour is "Oh God, how much time am I going to lose if I die now before reaching a save point?" We all know that feeling of agonizing between risk or playing it safe. Fast-forward could totally trivialize that experience."
I can't see how fast forward can trivialize the experience at this situation... If you have a hard time playing at normal speed I really doubt you can control your character better by fast forwarding.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:51
" It took that dude 500 hours to do that. I've never actually used fast-forward in an emulator, so I don't know what kinda speeds are involved here, but if you could do that sort of feat in a trivial amount of time then that's essentially enabling a cheat mode. "
Even with fast forward that's a significant time-investment to put into a game, if you're willing to put in that much time you deserve the reward of God-tier characters in the beginning of the game.
As for the speed, it varies on many things like the hardware of the original system, your own hardware, the accuracy of the emulator, etc. Regardless of what speeds you're getting it's going to be more of a hindrance in most cases as
"And if you're midway through a dungeon in an old-school RPG, part of what determines your behaviour is "Oh God, how much time am I going to lose if I die now before reaching a save point?" We all know that feeling of agonizing between risk or playing it safe. Fast-forward could totally trivialize that experience. "
Fast forward isn't like creating a save state you can use to fall back on... If you die you're still going to have to do that segment all over again. It doesn't trivialize it at all.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:54
"Maybe you should just not play games that you consider to be chores, such as light RPGs targeted at small children." ...what..? You completely missed my point. I enjoy RPGs, fast forward or not, but you know exactly how slow training is in RPGs. Why repeat the same exact action dozen of times in real time when you can do it faster? Again, fast forward doesn't make anything easier, it only saves time. I do not see the point of trying to ban it at all as it is NOT cheating in any way.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 17:58
For me the only explanation for fast forward used as cheating, is at meme sets that you need to keep emulator open overnight or just idle for hours. But meme sets are meme sets after all.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 18:53
Last Edit: 15 Mar, 2019 19:03
This doesnt jist speed up rpgs visual novels its speed this up in like love hina pheonex right and silent hill visual novr. Speed up works in a lot of fighting games to earn achivements faster, speed up works to speed up rpgs making them easier. By passing the grind . Kdecks an admin his words are achievements should be earned normall speeding up a game is not nornal.
Games like silent hill vn and phenox right take forever wotithout speed ups thats the hole reason most people do them even on modern consoles. These rpgs are not requiring any less skill. Monopoly it doesnt require anyless skill if you dont have it its just speeding up the game to make it faster.
Fast forward makes eevn ff easier try playing ff1 on gba at least your not invicible bit play as a team of all warriors and the games beyond faster in most cases i can just spam attack and win no skill. Dont tell me it does not make the game easier or faster it does. Try final fantasy mystic quest so your argument isnt that valid. Mystic quest takes 15 hours if you played it normally speed
Speed up pokemon and your near invicible anyway you can litterall use one pokemon to beat most of the game by passing the grind make it easier as you can just spam button and without speeding up you would try to catch pokemon faster vs spamming pokeballa and getting pokemon asap.
Thomas the tank engin the mario edicational games are just faster with fast forward there not any hardder
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:01
The only thing that should be fixed are the games where you can abuse the lack of save protection to chest your way to achievements. I'm indifferent on fast forward. Sometimes I use it sometimes I don't.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:10
If you can earn achievements faster by using fast forward I think it only means the achievements have bad design and can be unlocked without effort. I doubt someone can really play at fast forward speed.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:22
"Fast forward isn't like creating a save state you can use to fall back on... If you die you're still going to have to do that segment all over again. It doesn't trivialize it at all."
But if you knew you could do it quicker next time around, you wouldn't be so bothered about dying. If you fail, you could just decide to put it on x6 the normal speed so that your walking speed and all the battle animations just whizz by. What took you an hour to do before would now only take 10 mins, so it wouldn't be that much of a hassle.
Does anyone think Slow-Motion Mode should be available in Hardcore for bullet hell shmups or fighting games? After all, it just means cutting down the grind of actually having to spend time practising to get good!
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:33
Slow down is cheating cause it changes the game difficulty specially at games that need good reflex and fast response. Speed up is different. If you dont have skill you wont play better at higher speed. I see fast forward as support for players that dont have much free time to play. When I was a teenager I didnt care about slow dialogue boxes from RPGs, but now there are games that really discourages me to play without fast forwarding due to its low pace.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:44
But how do you define a game's difficulty? Is patience not itself a skill? If a player doesn't have much patience, then they will find playing through a slow-paced RPG quite difficult. In which case speeding up the game is indeed making it easier for them.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:49
im agree with Hotscrock, here is an example: in pokemon mystery dungeon every time you wake up after a dungeon a bird pokemon puts a letter in your mail box and before that maybe there is a dialog. After a few time i FF that parts becouse its too slow! i dont thinks its cheating, couse if i suck at a game in normal speed ill suck in FF speed.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2019 19:57
Last Edit: 15 Mar, 2019 19:59
The Global Leaderboard Rules could all be different, but it's what we've determined is the framework for fair competitive play; everyone is held to the same standards here. And because those are the rules that everyone follows it's NOT cheating to use fast forward in Hardcore.
The bottom line is that it was decided to continue to be allowed in hardcore where other emulator advantages were removed for basically for the reasons that Hotscrock has said.
FF isn't just nice in RPGs. It's good for loading screens, repetitive dialogue, unskippable cut-scenes, basically any time player input is irrelevant.
You'll find it very unlikely this rule will change even after a community vote. (As we've had them before and FF held a strong majority). Still all rules are subject to change if there's strong enough call for it.
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