Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!

SNES/Super Famicom

leislonjose 5 Jan 2024 15:43

Sub-54 is possible (: Sub-53 when? xD

Now I'll try to finish the 54.40 comment I was writing xD

Luissi 5 Jan 2024 15:53

WTF o.O A TAS trick out of nowhere? hahaha now things got way more insane xD Congrats on the first sub-54, this was mind blowing!

leislonjose 5 Jan 2024 16:14

@Luissi - I beat your 54.45 last night with a 54.40, but it was getting late and I was sleepy to write a comment. When I woke up to say something today, you had already beaten it with a 54.31! Good work! I beat it again by 1 frame so I could write a comment, getting a 54.30. And you beat me again shortly after with a 54.21 hahaha xD Take this 53.45 run of mine so I can have some minutes of peace (: And thanks for the compliment!

So, to get these records, I changed part of the movement when jumping on the wooden platforms, as we saw in the videos linked by Azuchi. It’s not that different from what you’re doing, but the videos helped me understand a little more about how this game works. Landing from a full jump comes with a huge delay if you hit the edge of a platform, like in the part where we try to avoid the checkpoint barrel. Dixie does a weird sliding animation and refuses to jump again. However, it seems that Dixie can jump immediately when landing from a flutter, so it saves time to fly before landing.

Also, when it’s not possible to save time with fluttering (usually when the platform heights aren’t favorable), I find it better to do a buffered jump - that is, holding the jump button way before touching the ground. It can be used to jump as soon as you hit the ground, and also to perform smaller jumps. It’s interesting to me just how many inputs can be buffered in this game xD. I sometimes hold ‘Run’ to twirl in the air, and when I land, Dixie still rolls on the ground as if I just pressed it. That could be useful somewhere!

The other chunk of the time-save comes from doing more jumps going up vertical ropes, which is oddly satisfying to learn xD. Whenever I mess up on the 1st half of the level, I can try doing more jumps on the 2nd half to compensate for the time loss. It incentivizes the no-reset runs I like so much xD

leislonjose 5 Jan 2024 16:15

And to end it, my usual ‘Jump’ button is getting really worn out from overpracticing this level. I literally counted ~90 jump presses on a full run! So, I mapped it to a different key on my keyboard, and now it feels more natural to press and repress it at 240 BPM for who knows how many hours xD. I’ll post the link to my new run soon-ish, my drive is out of space ‘cause the files are too big. Until then, good luck on your runs!

Jonny8567 5 Jan 2024 16:20

You guys are legends lmao. Good job on the crazy times.

leislonjose 5 Jan 2024 18:38

@Jonny8567 - Thanks! ^^ If you like watching back-and-forths like this between me and Luissi, be sure to check out the DKC2 Bonus Subset leaderboard (https://retroachievements.org/leaderboardinfo.php?i=31750) and the Zelda ALttP Race Game leaderboard (https://retroachievements.org/leaderboardinfo.php?i=5371). We usually do this until school starts eating all my free time and I’m forced to leave. But I plan to go back to each and every one of them, hopefully with more experience xD

@Luissi - The 53.45 run is now in my folder: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AseuoqkM-8-ygQYHbZw2Q4gzQS3l?e=4mu40o

This time I used the built-in Windows recorder to get a smaller video file (consequently with lower quality). You can now see the SNES emulator screen with the frame rate, the inputs I’m pressing, and a frame counter saying “Playing frame:” that can raise some questions, so I’ll explain exactly how I record my runs:

leislonjose 5 Jan 2024 18:39

Whenever I play any SNES game these days, I use the emulator RASnes9x v1.1 and click the “Record Movie…” option. That records all the inputs I’m pressing while playing the game into a .smv file, which is ridiculously smaller (in the order of 400 KB per hour of in-game time) and doesn’t lag my PC. Combining all of my DKC3 input files over this level, it uses up 16.4 MB of memory space (roughly 41 hours of in-game time), letting me record as many files as I want without issues. As a side note, real time should be much less because I use fast-forward a lot on the cutscenes, screen transitions, loading times, overworld movement and so on.

So, after playing a bunch with the “Recording frame:” text on-screen, I click on “Movie Stop”. The .smv file created in that session can be replayed later just like a movie. Of course, the RA emulators ban replaying (watching) movies to unlock achievements and compete in leaderboards, so I’m only allowed to record them while playing.

After that’s done, I switch to the standalone Snes9x emulator and click on “Movie Play…” to watch the .smv files in action, and finally record a video file out of them. Previously, I used the emulator option “Start AVI Recording…”, but the AVI files used up ~600 MB per minute. That’s way too big to store in my current condition, so today I started experimenting with the built-in Windows recorder I mentioned. The resulting .mp4 files use up ~70 MB of space per minute, solving my memory space shortage problem. I’ll use this format from now on, and replace all the previous files with smaller ones. I hope this clears things up!

Luissi 5 Jan 2024 22:29

@Jonny8567 - You also got one of the faster times here, so congrats on that. At first I couldn't even go below 1:10, but when the revision cames out it was enough to be the record, then Leislon entered the game with a impressive 59.45, the first sub minute around here. I was clueless how to beat it so I was improving little by little to keep up. Now the history repeats: He did a whooping 53.45, cutting more than a full second in less then 24h, letting me clueless once again lol But I'll improve until I beat that xD Thanks for the cumpliment!

Luissi 5 Jan 2024 22:40

@leislonjose - Funnily I also had a problem before, but it was my thumb that was hurting from many 'B' pressing xD So I changed the 'Y' to the upper button (R1) of my joystick, after that I could do more fast and consistent jumps using the tip of the thumb, probably it explains why I did many records that day haha

And talk about coincidence, today I decided to go back to recording with Windows. As I cited earlier, itsn't working properly, as it makes the game lags randomly every few seconds. When I discovered this built-in recorder it was a life saver for my gameplay footage: it was light and recorded with good quality and 60fps. But then my HD stopped working (that's why I'm using One Drive now, I had to buy a subscription after losing many HDs xD), I put a SSD that cames with a different version of Windows. The system became faster, except for the recording unfortunately. This is where my problem started: I like to use the "Pot Player" app to frame-advance the videos (pressing 'F' to go forward and 'D' to go back). But after analyzing two videos that was our PB on that day, I saw that my video had more than 100 frames than yours, even they being almost the same times! I concluded the recording from RASnes9x is accurate, but the one from Retro Arch is horrible xD So I started to look at the decimals instead, I thought it worked, but today I saw your green bee descent part and compared with mine, counting the seconds and decimals, my strat give me a time WAY lower than yours! Whaat? No way, it don't make sense, this recording is worst than I thought xD It screwed all my analisis, I think I have to re-learn it all over again xD And thanks to explaining the mechanics of the game. I knew that flying was a bit faster (if done right), but I wasn't understanding it very well haha

Luissi 5 Jan 2024 22:40

About the Win recorder, I did a bit of testing earlier (right after my 54.11 PB), and after lowering my resolution to HD it didn't lag. I'll test more. If it still lags, I'll have to change system or search for another solution. I have to do my best now if I want to continue this competition, your new run is insanely good =)

I'm also busy with work, but I have free time some hours almost everyday, so I'll keep trying in every opportunity (and you know it xD), even if it's to try lowering my own time until eventually I reach your time again hehehe

Luissi 8 Jan 2024 04:25

The sub at last xD Took me days to get it and I'm still far away from the record you did in seven minutes hahaha But it's progress \O/

leislonjose 8 Jan 2024 15:56

Nice work getting a sub-54! I’m sure you can do it xD And good luck on the grind!

Luissi 9 Jan 2024 23:15

Thanks for your support, bro.

And here I am again! Your record was so hard to break that I had to implement that hell of a trick AzuchiAkeshi mentioned, that barrel jump in the air that I saw in the TAS video you both posted. Also sorry for the long delay, I usually upload after I end my session, problem is, I still didn't finished it xD But my two new records (53.38 and 53.08) are already in that folder. Also the files are a bit larger than before, since my recording issue was solved xD You won't see the frame count nor the inputs like in your new videos (don't know if there's this option in RetroArch), but this time at least there's the fancy leaderboard timer!

Maybe you already know how to do the barrel jump, but here it goes: hold the barrel and jump holding [Down], release [Y] on the third frame. If done right, Dixie will release the barrel in the air. Now, jump a bit before the barrel explodes (don't remember now if it's 1 or 2 frames before). Dixie will jump in the air, allowing for a shortcut and saving that poor rat xD So that's TWO frame perfect inputs! With a bit of practice with save states I can do maybe 10% or more.

And to answer why I didn't stoped playing, it's because once again, I made a terrible mistake that made me lose some decimals... in both runs. After watching them and seeing that I could have done a new sub, I confess it was heartbreaking xD I still try to do a run with this trick and with less mistake to achieve this. But I'm very inconsistent in everything, so maybe you even do it first haha

Good luck!

Luissi 9 Jan 2024 23:38

Side notes:

I did that comment "a TAS trick out of nowhere?" because I really thought you have done that barrel jump. How I got surprised after I saw that insane time was made without it hahaha

Going over and over to that barrel is very tiring. Luckily it's early at the stage, even then it was enough to make me nervous most of the time during the rest of the run. But I'll still try to do the next sub. After that maybe I'll stop grinding this stage for a time, even after you break my record again. Also my notebook do very loud noises and start overheating at random. I take it to repair but the issue started again. So if I disappear for a time, don't mean I give up, I can return at random xD Happy grinding!

Luissi 11 Jan 2024 21:26

SUB-53 LET'S GOOOOO

Luissi 11 Jan 2024 22:01

After choking at the end two times I finally got it! My hand was shaking uncontrollably hahaha
My new run is in that folder and also here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfB42f2Ke6o

leislonjose 12 Jan 2024 23:51

My first sub-53, at last! That was the hardest grind so far! And just enough to break your record xD. I really had to work on my timing for the whole level on this one, to a point I barely finished my runs. One missed jump input and everything falls apart, either because I lose my rhythm or get exploded to pieces. My new best run still isn’t perfect: I did slow jumps up the 1st vertical rope, I failed to jump at the 2nd vertical rope, and I did an okay roll at the green bee descent. Although improvable, I’m really happy with that time xD.

The new 52.81 run is now in my folder: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AseuoqkM-8-ygQYHbZw2Q4gzQS3l?e=4mu40o

And congrats on the first ever sub-53! You stayed ahead of my PB for quite a while, and you even managed to maintain a difference of 0.62 seconds over my best run! At this stage of the competition, saving that much time took me some serious grinding xD. When you decide to beat this again, I might have to start using that TAS trick you so kindly explained how to do (;

Also, I wanna say that I don’t want you to feel pressured to come back to this leaderboard as soon as possible - You can always decide if and when you want to grind it, at your own time. I won’t take it as giving up xD Brazilians never give up! I hope you can get your notebook fixed and continue to have as much fun with RetroAchievements as I do xD. See ya!

Luissi 13 Jan 2024 00:57

Congrats on the sub 53 and for beating my record once again, and without even using the glitch shortcut? Now my run look sloppy compared to yours, it's that time where I have to improve xD

Failing that shortcut over and over and seeing my jump inputs failing randomly was surely frustrating (don't know if it's a thing of the game, but most probably was just my skill issue haha), though it's just a normal day to a speedrunner. I think the notebook noise that was the icing of the cake to get on my nerves xD Funny thing is I got motivated again so I'll start the grind soon (unless the Asus b*tch decides to start the screaming xD). But I'll try to get easy from now on, thanks for understanding the situation 🤝

Luissi 13 Jan 2024 01:06

And correcting my barrel jump explanation: I said that the jump in the air must be done a few frames before the barrel explodes, but after seeing my own videos I concluded it's wrong: it must be done somewhere close to the peak of the jump. My misundersting happened because when testing, I did this jump close to the wall. But in my latest runs I did it far from the wall, that way the barrel explodes way after the air jump. Anyway I think it's best to just memorize the rhythm (or use a visual cue). I apologize for the wrong info, and hope that someday they let us edit our texts so I can correct these things and also a bit of my bad english haha

Luissi 20 Jan 2024 17:45

My grinding is way slower now, but still works xD Crazy thing I was hoping for a 52.80 or something close, after doing many 53.0X, a 52.96 and a 52.88, so finishing with a 52.25 made me look at the timer in disbelief hahaha still did a few errors, like the slow jump'n fly at 0:28.5, and a failed jump at the last vertical rope. My v.rope and h.rope jumps still aren't top tiers like yours and even the glitch shortcut wasn't enough to break your record anymore, so I had to add more time savers. The first one is the turnaround at about 5.50 (leaderboard timer): it seems holding "Right" for more time while still in the ground is faster, so delaying the jump there make right side acceleration happen sooner and saved between 0.10 and 0.20 in my tests. The other time-save is the left route before the checkpoint. It seems faster since it avoid the first back-and-forward after the last ropes.

My 52.25 run (also in that folder as always):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rl1VpYbgnQ

Breaking your 52.81 record toke me days of training and attempts, I don't know how many times and hours I played, since my gameplay sessions are random xD I just know it toke way more time than I'm used to. It was tough, but it's expected the more we optimize the run. But I'm ready for more when you decide to beat that again xD Good luck!