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Cheaters

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AuthorMessage

BerserkerBR
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 00:20
I dont usually talk about this topic but cheaters are flocking again, specially among the top 5.

I hope something is done soon because it already got pretty obvious who they are...

Thoreau
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 08:15
I've made quite some efforts in this subject, two guys from the current top 5 were untracked with proofs I provided, but then after some time they got un-untracked without any explanation.

In this meantime, I've seen some jokes from an admin on me being a snitch, I've seen an admin making statements he didn't want a "witch hunt" community, I've seen an admin saying he just hadn't any pleasure dealing with this subject, but he would try. Still I guess I should be thankful for the efforts from the very few admins who did something, because most of them completely hide themselves when the subject is cheating. It seems their philosofy are: "we can't really tell these guys are 100% cheaters, so we won't do anything about the fact they are 99% cheaters".

Anyway, this really discouraged me to keep working on this matter, so I just stopped and it ended with myself participating less in general and getting away from the community. Found out admins doesn't care about the honest guy who silently goes away, but cares about the proved cheater who publicly complains. Go figure.

MagusPC
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 10:32
@ you shouldn't be afraid of calling Admins out for them doing a poor job, we all make mistakes and the role of a member shouldn't give them benefit rights, we are all in same boat and everyone should be respected equally. You won't be banned or anything for calling them out.

Cheaters shouldn't get a free ticket just because some of them have sympathy in the community, a cheater is a cheater. Why do we have the Ranking System on the Site and Anti Cheat / Savegame protection build in the Cheevos when cheaters can still do what they want. There are cases where a Cheevo is simply poorly coded (to much if you ask me) but obvious Cheaters shouldn't get a free ticket to cheating.

BerserkerBR
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 11:51
I think we all deserve an explanation to why some people were untracked but suddenly got un-untracked. They kept passing in a matter of days everybody that have been here for years playing fair and square eveyday.

There was even an specific case where one off those cheaters was exposed by the creator of one set, because the creator have made a mistake in the programming and it was impossible to complete the set by normal means. However nothing has been done and they dismissed the case because "there was not enough prove"

Come on guys, what is enough prove to you? We are all been made of fools here

LootusMaximus
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 15:18
I noticed this. I agree with berserker here

meleu
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 18:06
Trying to give an objective answer.

I removed the untracked status of "that guy" because he resetted the progress of the achievements he was accused of cheating and reported it. This doesn't give him, or anyone else, a free ticket to cheating. Any proof of cheating can be submitted to the user for further investigation. But keep in mind the following:

- we need facts. Only assumptions and personal remarks usually don't help.
- we will investigate as time and interest permits. We are all volunteers here.

I am one of those who has no pleasure dealing with this subject. But I am working to improve the tools available to investigate cheating, trying to make it less boring and painful.

About being made of fool, I know how it feels like. Some close people say that about me. Because I devote so much of my freetime to this project. They argue that I should write software to earn money and don't do it for free.

As complement of this topic, I would like to invite you guys to join this thread here "What's your opinion about the Global Leaderboard?":
http://retroachievements.org/viewtopic.php?t=6775

kdecks
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 18:32
Last Edit: 12 Jun, 2018 18:32
No comment.



Oh wait saying no comment is a comment

Thoreau
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 18:41
"I removed the untracked status of 'that guy' because he resetted the progress of the achievements he was accused of cheating and reported it. This doesn't give him, or anyone else, a free ticket to cheating."

This attitude is, by definition, giving a free ticket to cheating.

Let's say I steal $100, but somehow I get caught. It gets decided, though, that my "punishment" should be giving those $100 back to the original owner. There was no punishment here, only a refund. This environment gives everyone a free ticket to stealing. A punishment would be giving $1000 back, and it should be this way to clearly discourage anyone from stealing.

If I cheat, get caught, but my "punishment" is just giving the points I got by cheating back, this is a free ticket to cheating. If I get permanently untracked, now this is a punishment, and it should be this way to clearly discourage anyone from cheating.

BerserkerBR
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 19:45
I am with Thoreau.

If his defence for accusation was resetting the achievement, that sounds more like a confession to me. I have earned every achievement fair and square and I am aways opening tickets when things go a little off (triggered on wrong time / not triggered at all) yet, I have never ever saw a opened ticket by these same fellows

Of course, some achievements stop working for no reason after some time or some achievements pop in a specific ocasion in the wrong time but, come on...no tickets opened by these people ever? Even when the creator of the sets admits he coded them wrongly?

More over, some people (me included) play here everyday and look at the difference on the score...It is matematicaly impossible. Not to mention the fact that not one but many MANY people seens to be experts (not only good, but godlike) in all types of games (from sports to Battletoads).

Also more than one person has submmited diferent proofs about the same people over and over..

Also is this the final word from the RAdmin as a whole? Because if that is the case (and that is the part of been made a fool) I must remind everybody that when me and some others decided to become patrons it was because of the constant bandwich problems we had in the begining and since we enjoy the site, we decide to keep things running smoothly out of good will.

However I refuse to pay for some Merry Men to use the bandwich to cheat in the open like that. I will ask my fellow patrons about what they think about this issue. Maybe they will care, maybe they wont, but i will pull out if this is the final answer.




BerserkerBR
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 20:03
I forgot to mention the in the top 5 there is not only "one guy".

There are at least 3 for sure.

kdecks
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 21:10
Last Edit: 12 Jun, 2018 21:11
@BerserkerBR

Prove to me that you've never cheated.

...

See it's impossible.


We can't take the global board too seriously.

zxmega
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 21:37
@kdecks

Saying that it's impossible to prove someone cheated, doesn't mean that y'all can work punishing obvious cheaters.

I mean, as BerserkerBR said, it's mathematically impossible that some players can gain x points and achievements per day, and that they are godlike in apparently every game they play. It's common sense, sometimes it doesn't takes minutes to see something is wrong with a player.

Yes, there are pro players that are really good when playing these games, but even these you can see that they take a "legit" time to complete a game, and have many 100%'s due to being in the site since a long time.

By this case, you can say that they can manipulate the time/day they get achievements, so it can seems legit, and i can agree with you, there's not so much to show proof against these, but as i said, there is cases where there is player obviously using cheats, and they surely deserves a punishement.


jplima
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 21:38
Discussing this is just like discussing if God exists or not. Prove that he exists, prove he doesn't exist.

PS: I believe he exists and I believe everybody has cheat at least one time in life.

kdecks
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 21:46
Last Edit: 12 Jun, 2018 21:52
We do punish obvious cheaters

In times when someone has been untracked and then it was reversed there was enough doubt by the group of admin on the validity of the untracking for them to remain untracked. We, as a community, don't have a perfect solution here.

BerserkerBR
Posted: 12 Jun, 2018 21:50
@kdecks

I'm a bit surprised to your answer. I thought you were up for the untracked status to those people but you seen to have changed your mind...

Does that reflect the opinion of the admin community?
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