Tiered Badges and Leveling System Idea
Posted: 13 Mar, 2018 15:11
Last Edit: 16 Mar, 2018 18:51
Hello everyone, I have recently started using this amazing site after joining a long time ago and started reading forum/discord to get an idea of how the community feels overall about RA. It seems that there are a decent amount of people that are unhappy with the current system which is unavoidable but understandable since you can't make everyone happy. Some people want badges to track what games they beat, some want to get as many easy points or badges as they can, others want badges to only be for those who have mastered every aspect of the game, etc...
Another problem I see is that when a set gets revised people usually aren't happy even though it is being done to make the system better in the long run for future player (idealy). People are unhappy about losing points, having to redo sets, maybe upset that they missed out on a chance to get that badge when the achievements were really easy, etc...
Lastly the points system currently has some problems with the way RR works. As others have pointed out some achievements RR are artificially inflated by many factors such as many people starting the game but not finishing it (increasing the player count and jacking up the RR). There is also the case of ~Bonus~ sets usually being extremely challenging but not rewarding very many points since for the most part I would assume only the diehard fans are attempting those. I personally also care about my average completion rate so I don't want to try the ~Bonus~ sets most of the time since I really doubt I could complete many of them which leads to another problem that there are multiple sets to a game and you have to play a modified rom in order to try the ~Bonus~ achievements (as far as I know, haven't actually tried).
I have taken some of the ideas I've seen spread throughout here and tried to expand upon them to create what I think would be a system that could hopefully appeal to more types of gamers on this site.
*I'll put a disclaimer here that I really don't have any idea how all of this works on the backend and if any of my ideas are even feasible but here they are. Also I apologize if any of these ideas were mentioned previously I tried to search for anything similar but didn't find anything.
Attempting to solve: Disparity among people who want completion badge, people who want only the top players to have proof of mastery, segregated achievement sets (~Bonus~), and badges for revised sets.
I've seen a few people mention adding badges for completing a game (based on an achievement to beat the final level/boss) but think that this can be expanded further to create badges for completing different tiers of a game. If the achievements for a game were separated into lets say 3 tiers (Easy, Medium, Hard) and separated by type such as Easy Finishing Level X/Boss X up until the last Level/Boss then if you complete all of the Easy achievements you have done at the very least a playthrough of the game. Medium/Hard could be for things such as collecting various optional items or doing optional or challenging things such as beating bosses without taking damage (depending on the game).
Using this you could create a badge for each tier and that would mean beating the Easy achievements would essentially be a beat the game badge, Medium would me you likely did near 100% completion of the game, and Hard would likely mean you completed the most difficult challenges. Similar to how badges already have either no border or a yellow border depending on if you completed it fully without/with hardcore enabled you could Give a different border for each tier of completion (Bronze, Silver, Gold).
To expand further upon this to attempt to solve the problem of ~Bonus~ sets being separate you could add these to the main games achievement page but differentiate them visually and in point value from the other achievements. You could add a fourth tier (Very Hard, Extreme, Master) for the rare few that truly want to master the most challenging achievements. Total player count for all players would then be counted towards these ~Bonus~ achievements which would increases their RR rating to more appropriate levels. Since these would be special achievements if possible they could be either ignored when calculating average completion ratio, or perhaps be added as bonus points with the possibility of having a completion ratio higher than 100%. This would prevent people from avoiding these achievements due to the fact that they are so challenging and most likely not going to be completed by the average player.
As for the problem with people keeping badges for previous revisions of the set you could add a discontinued version of the badge in question. From here either you could keep the discontinued badge and gain the new current badge when you complete the new revised set (this could cause a lot of extra unnecessary clutter) or you could just change the discontinued into the normal when completed. Hopefully this would solve the problem that some people think it is not fair that others get to keep badges for previous versions but will also keep people who don't want to have to redo the set from losing their proof of earning the badge at one point.
This idea is not as exciting to me but is my attempt at a solution to the RR point system and ties into my previous idea. The point system could stay how it currently is but if the tiered badge system is implemented then you could give something like experience points for completing a tier with higher values for each tier such as Easy - 1 exp, Medium - 5 exp, Hard - 15 exp, Extreme - 45 exp. This would only work well if the tiers were properly correlated with the time or difficulty of the tier but I think it could give another useful metric and something besides looking at a point value to see see your progress on the site. You could even take it further for fun and add rewards for leveling up.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope at least parts of my ideas can promote more discussion and growth on this great site :)
*Edit* I just realized that badges are the images for each achievement and my post still makes sense but what I was trying to convey is tiered badges under the site rewards section of your profile (mastery badges?) that could track you beating, completing, and mastering a game upon completing those tiers.
Posted: 15 Mar, 2018 17:08
Hello Searo, i've already created some Tiered Achievement Sets you described and already working since months on improving it by adding more Layers and Types. Here is a recent example of a older Badge System Set. http://retroachievements.org/Game/2032
I don't know when the new updated Badge System will be finished but i will use it in my next Set and update the older Sets with it, but creating Badges takes a lot of time, more than actually coding the Achievements.
I have been asked if my Badge System could be used as a template for other Sets but i don't think that would be a good idea, i rather have other Devs coming up with their own creativitiy and ideas so we can learn and be inspired from each other.
I support the Leveling Profil System as well as already mentioned in our Discord Chat. You should join us if you can, people with constructive ideas are always welcome!
Posted: 16 Mar, 2018 01:42
I just checked out your Tiny Toon Adventure set and it looks great. The achievements are nicely separated into different tiers. If there was some sort of standard like this I could see the achievement pages being able to visually separate and reward completing the different tiers which I think would be amazing but I also see what you mean that it could damper peoples creativity.
That's interesting that the Badges take longer than the achievements I wouldn't expect that but I also don't know anything about badge creation and have only just started looking into what goes into creating the achievements which already seems like a pretty tedious task.
Thanks I will have to pay more attention to what goes on in Discord from now on I'm going to try to start being more active in the community.
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