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Solution to the Pokemon Red/Blue "Gotta Catch Em' All" Predicament + Bonus set suggestions

AuthorMessage

Blazekickn
Posted: 01 Aug, 2017 22:49
I'm not one of the staff for RA, nor do I have any real experience with making an achievement set for a game. I'm just an active user who wants to pitch an idea.

Gen 1 Pokemon is a glitchy mess of a video game, and most of the users that have played this game for RA (including myself) have exploited things like the Missingno. glitch and the Mew Glitch to make this game much easier and faster. While I don't feel like the current achievement needs to be changed - after all, most people have already taken advantage of it at this point and changing it now wouldn't do much - I do think that something needs to be done.

The solution - Bonus achievements!

Since bonus achievements are a thing now, Pokemon Red/Blue is a perfect example of a game that can thrive off of bonus achievements. So many glitches and possibilities of things to do in the game. I'm not 100% percent sure if this is the place to suggest achievement sets so feel free to move the thread if necessary - I mainly wanted community feedback as to if this is a good idea in the first place - so I'm only going to suggest a few achievements that can be on the set.

1. Gotta Catch Em' All - The Way It Was MEANT To Be! - Catch all 124 obtainable Pokemon without the use of the Missingno. glitch.

Like I said earlier, the Missingno. glitch made the actual "Gotta Catch Em' All" achievement a joke, but it's too late to change it now. This bonus achievement allows for those who are up to the challenge to go for the achievement glitch-less if they want to while the 98% of people who did glitch their way to victory can still have their Mastery.

You could identify the use of Missingno. in two ways:

#1. Item 6 = 128 or Item 6 > 99.

Both are impossible during normal gameplay, since one stack of items caps at 99. Since Missingno. sets the 6th item in you bag to be equal to 128, 128 equals 128, and 128 is also greater than 99. Both would trigger the flag and lock the achievement.

#2. A wild (Pokemon I.D that isn't an actual Pokemon) appeared!

Since Pokemon has constantly changing memory adresses, similar to Banjo-Kazooie (At least 3rd Gen Pokemon does, I'm not so sure about 1st gen), this would probably be the easier of the two to track down. Run a check every time a wild battle occurs. If the I.D of the wild Pokemon is not a valid I.D (One that isn't of the normally obtainable 124, depending on which game it is), it activates the flag and locks the achievement.

There are probably easier methods, but those are the two I thought of with my limited knowledge of the coding of these games.

2. Gotta ACTUALLY Catch Em' All - Catch all 151 Pokemon without trading.

From Glitchless to Very Glitched, this achievement tests users knowledge about Gen 1 glitches - you can use the classic Mew Glitch to get it done, but it would probably be very slow and tedious. A faster, but more advanced level option would be to go for 8F Arbitrary Code execution to help generate encounters for the mons that you can't normally find - or better yet, just use 8F to deposit Pokemon straight to the PC. No restrictions here, just Catch Em' All.

3. Speedrun? - Enter the Hall of Fame with a time of 0:01 or less.

Corrupt your save data to underflow your item storage and manipulate the exit of your house to take you to the hall of fame. I know it sounds complicated, so here's a Tutorial I found on how to do it. (NOTE: I did not make this video.)

Link:

There are more achievement ideas that I have, but I want to know what the communities' opinion is on there even being a bonus "set" for Red and Blue (and possibly yellow though that is not likely since it's harder to do the glitches so it doesn't have the same need for bonus achievements as Red/Blue). Feel free to suggest ideas and feedback in the replies.




Mhgr
Posted: 01 Aug, 2017 23:15
Catch all 151 in less than 2 hours is a good idea too, these bonus sets are made to be a LOT hard, so...

kdecks
Posted: 02 Aug, 2017 02:53
Last Edit: 02 Aug, 2017 02:58
I find it very valuable for glitch protection to be something that devs consider while making a set. Glitches are breaking the intended game experience.

If any game with known glitches received a modern update from the original dev team you'd be sure that the glitches would be patched out because they go against the game's artistic plan. They are bugs.

I understand that in the speerunning communities that glitches are the standard, except for glitchless runs. But were not a speedrunning community.

Also glitch based cheeves would be awesome in a bonus set!

dude1286
Posted: 02 Aug, 2017 16:10
Last Edit: 02 Aug, 2017 16:10
It would be difficult to fix Pokemon Red and Blue due to the Missing no glitch affecting things that are variable in nature. Making the condition check only one slot in the inventory will not fix anything as the player can either use enough of that item to get it below 100, or just move it to another inventory slot or into the PC. That would require 70 more requirements on an already bloated achievement.

kdecks
Posted: 02 Aug, 2017 18:09
I've never once looked at the memory, but a careful study of the code may provide more elegant solutions.

Danver2618
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 14:58
Last Edit: 18 Sep, 2017 09:10
Another ideas:
1. True Champion:Defeat the elite four with one pokémon without getting hit
2. Lone wolf:Complete the game with just one pokémon (no catching any other Pokémon)
3. Damn it:Get a whiteout in front of nurse Joy due to poison
4. Smell ya later: Don't lose a single battle against blue throughout the game
5. Totally legit:Get a lv100 Pokémon before Brock (Exp underflow glitch)
6. Breaking the rules!:Skip Pewter gym (Even though I can't get it to work but it's possible)
7. I didn't knew you were a pokémon trainer: Defeat professed oak(a variable of old man glitch)

And yea the less than 2 hour one is good (but that's telling us to set WRs)

amine456
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 16:39
I like having a bonus set for pokemon. But seing that Red and Blue are almost the same games, what about making Pokemon red for example the normal set and Pokemon Blue the bonus one ?

Danver2618
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 16:44
Nah that would be unfair for those who mastered blue

Shikamaru91
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 17:21
The fact that Pokemon always has 2 very similar games doesn't mean there shouldn't be a set for each.
It's like saying "This game is better on console X, no need to make a set for console Y".

amine456
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 17:28
They are basically the same game, knowing that you can use a red save on pokemon Blue. I tried it and it worked.

Having the same set for Red and Blue is like giving a single game 800 points (1600 for hardcore).

NickGoat1990
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 18:17
The Missingno. glitch while convenient is not that badly necessary for the Gotta Catch'em All achievement, it's cool to have all the Master Balls to make things a bit faster but it's really not needed, the only Pokémon where it's really nice to multiply items are for Dratini's evos and Porygon. Abusing the east shore of Cinnabar for Safari pokémon is a much greater help but it's harder to work around that for the achievement I'd imagine.

I agree with not awarding achievements for glitches, but I'm against the idea of prohibiting the use of glitches altogether, intended or not, they're part of the game and a valid method if you are able to pull them off, in the case of this glitch in particular, whileit's well known, easy to pull off and it makes some achievements trivial, the other option of not using it doesn't make the game more fun or challenging, actually, it makes it more tedious, evolving a bunch of pokémon, getting a pokémon to Lv.100 and farming money for Porygon by going through the E4 a bunch of times has no merit besides wasting your time.

Having achievements for getting each fossil and each Hitmon seems more of a problem to me, Save->Pick one->Get achievement->Reset->Pick the other->Get achievement, what's the point?

ViperZang
Posted: 13 Sep, 2017 21:24
I would love to have a bonus set for Pokémon, especially involving glitches.

On the topic of sets for Red vs Blue: Why not both? Since the save files are the same, according to , does anyone know if the RAM is the same, or similar enough, between Red and Blue to be able to code the exact same achievements for both? If so, could the two bonus ROMs be linked to the same entry? Just call it something like "~Bonus~ Pokemon - Red and Blue Versions". That way, you're not forcing a player to play one over the other by only one game having a bonus set, or making one game a normal set and the other bonus. It also avoids having essentially two copies of the same bonus set.

Danver2618
Posted: 14 Sep, 2017 14:50
But aren't they both have different pokémon?like some are exclusive to red and some are exclusive to blue

ViperZang
Posted: 14 Sep, 2017 15:05
That is true, but if the bonus set achievement is to catch all 151 Pokémon, the exclusives wouldn't matter, since you would have to get every Pokémon, including exclusives to the other game, in the game anyway.

Danver2618
Posted: 17 Sep, 2017 13:21
Last Edit: 17 Sep, 2017 13:57
Btw ~Glitch~ Pokémon Red/Blue would be a better name

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