Shining Force II
Posted: 21 Aug, 2013 23:57
Official Topic Post for discussion about
Created 21 Aug, 2013 23:57 by
Posted: 22 Aug, 2013 00:17
Time to brainstorm!
I think there's an Ouch! difficulty level, and something after the end credits too.
It's been awhile since I played this so I could use some help on ideas.
Posted: 22 Aug, 2013 09:34
I've never noticed any difference in the difficulty level, they all seem very similar! Yes there's a boss battle after the credits, it's pretty easy though compared to some other battles!
I'd be interested to see how the difficulty level actually affects the game
Posted: 22 Aug, 2013 14:16
Summarizing your ideas from chat:
-endgame secret boss battle
-collecting *all* the mythril
-promoting characters to certain levels
-making SARAH into a monk
-finding all the secret characters
Posted: 23 Aug, 2013 16:09
Steal back the other jewel
Win the fight on Mt. Volcano
Or rather, DEFEAT THE KRAKEN!!!
You done shrunk, son
Win the Chess Battle
Take flight using the Nazca Ship
Win the Prism Flowers battle
Defeat Zalbard, one of the four Greater Devils
Defeat Cameela, one of the four Greater Devils
Defeat Geshp, one of the four Greater Devils
Defeat Odd-Eye, one of the four Greater Devils
Kiss the beautiful Princess Elis
Suffer no casualties during the raid on Polca
Suffer no casualties while facing THE KRAKEN
Defeat Talos without consuming MP
Clear the harpy pool battle on Hard or higher difficulty
Win the Chess Battle on Super difficulty
Suffer no casualties during the battle for Pangoat Bridge
Ensure SHEELA gets the killing blow against Red Baron
Suffer no casualties while climbing the Tower of the Ancients
Win the battle against the Possessed King on Super difficulty
Ensure BOWIE gets the killing blow against Zeon
Ensure SLADE gets the killing blow against Zeon
Win the battle against the Zeon on Super difficulty
Win the mysterious secret boss battle
Win the secret boss battle on Super difficulty
Drink the soapy water
Find the 'SEGA GUIDE'
Find 'THE ANCIENT TOWER'
Find the Chirrup Sandals
Refuse Oddler both times
Add some tasteful wood paneling to this tree
Pick up the Running Ring
Gaze upon the awesomeness that is you
Find a way to cross the river
Force JAHA to lug around four mithril at once
You used the config cheat, hopefully only after earning all the achievements
Recruit KIWI [OPTIONAL]
Recruit MAY [OPTIONAL]
Recruit RICK [OPTIONAL]
Recruit SKREECH [OPTIONAL]
Recruit TAYA [OPTIONAL]
Recruit JARO [OPTIONAL]
Recruit SHEELA [OPTIONAL]
Recruit CLAUDE [OPTIONAL]
Promote BOWIE to class Hero
Promote CHESTER to class Paladin
Promote CHESTER to class Pegasus Knight
Promote JAHA to class Gladiator
Promote JAHA to class Baron
Promote SARAH to class Vicar
Promote SARAH to class Master Monk
Promote KAZIN to class Wizard
Promote KAZIN to class Sorcerer
Promote SLADE to class Ninja
Promote KIWI to class Monster
Promote MAY to class Bow Knight
Promote PETER to class Phoenix
Promote GERHALT to class Wolf Baron
Promote LUKE to class Bird Battler
Promote RICK to class Paladin
Promote RICK to class Pegasus Knight
Promote ELRIC to class Sniper
Promote ELRIC to class Brass Gunner
Promote ERIC to class Paladin
Promote ERIC to class Pegasus Knight
Promote RANDOLF to class Gladiator
Promote RANDOLF to class Baron
Promote TYRIN to class Wizard
Promote TYRIN to class Sorcerer
Promote KARNA to class Vicar
Promote KARNA to class Master Monk
Promote JANET to class Sniper
Promote JANET to class Brass Gunner
Mithril 1 of 15
Mithril 2 of 15
Mithril 3 of 15
Mithril 4 of 15
Mithril 5 of 15
Mithril 6 of 15
Mithril 7 of 15
Mithril 8 of 15
Mithril 9 of 15
Mithril 10 of 15
Mithril 11 of 15
Mithril 12 of 15
Mithril 13 of 15
Mithril 14 of 15
Mithril 15 of 15
Obtain all mithril in one playthrough
Fairy Woods Hidden Battle
Compete for the fastest time in the Fairy Woods Challenge!
What, didn't land that promotion?
Clear the game without ever having promoted a unit
So Shiny, it Gleams!
Recruit all characters into your Force
Posted: 02 Sep, 2013 17:32
Apparently Super is the hardest difficulty level. Ouch! isn't much more difficult than Normal or Hard (The AI is just a little bit more aggressive). But Super is a whole 'nother story - enemies have ~25% boost to attack and is widely considered the hardest difficulty.
Posted: 02 Sep, 2013 23:52
It is weird how the value in memory is 0, 1, 3, 2 when you change the difficulty... maybe they got put in the wrong order?
Posted: 03 Sep, 2013 01:21
It is indeed weird.
Seems like they flip-flopped 01 (Super) and 02 (Hard).
I'm thinking Ouch! not being more difficult than Super is a game glitch. The AI in Ouch! was supposed to make things more difficult ... but in execution, Super is hardest.
Posted: 11 Sep, 2013 19:26
Getting towards the end of the game (I think?), and I'm realizing just how many more achievements could be done here, especially in light of finding how hard it is to get all 15 unique weapons forged from Mithril. Getting the best weapons requires a bit of lucksacking. But that would be a double-reward since I'm already granting achievements for finding the hidden forge let alone collecting all the Mithril. Speaking of which...
All the Mithril:
I'm still planning on having a 'You got all the Mithril'-style achievement, for a 5 point bonus. The reason every piece of Mithril has an achievement associated with it is because it's so easy to miss just one piece of Mithril, and this is a great way for you to know exactly what piece that is. Mithril is so well-hidden that it's almost impossible to find them all without gluing yourself to a walkthrough; This should allow players to comfortably play without having to rely on one.
Promoting at level 40 (instead of early 20's-30):
Some people swear by it, others think it's boring as hell. I don't want to dictate how you play and I certainly don't want to make the game less fun by forcing this.
Why so many Promotion achievements?:
I want to encourage people who have never tried, say, Janet as a Brass Gunner, to give it a go. And in general this is just a good way to show players which characters they've never played in a given role, providing great incentive for replay. Even with lots of savestate abuse, there's a limited amount of special promotion items in the game--and some of them arrive very late--so it's difficult to get all the character promotions in a single playthrough.
Fairy Woods Hidden Battle:
The Fairy Woods challenge could easily become a leaderboard instead of an achievement.
"Your save is corrupt," said the Witch:
This game is unique in that there's an actual dedicated script and eerie music that plays if you manage to corrupt your save file. It was scary to get this message back in the day, especially given the length of this game. (I should know; Got it a few times myself which is probably why I never beat the game.) --- At first, I thought it would be an interesting achievement to have. It would require you to open your savefile and mess around with the information, or create a 0KB savefile, or do any of several other methods, but that would be a bit much to ask of the player, I think.
This item is easy to miss and is so unique to the game, the sandals deserve a cheevo all their own. I will add *something* in my second playthrough as I test everything. And yes, I will be doing my second playthrough on the feared 'Super' difficulty mode.
Other than that...:
I've been trying to vary things up, sometimes requiring certain difficulty levels or 'no casualties' or 'no mp use' during certain battles in order to win achievements. I hope that adds a lot to the enjoyment of this game. 'No casualties' is a personal favorite of mine. There are certain battles that get your blood pumping as it is; 'No casualties' turns up the heat that much more.
I've also thought about things like letting Sheela get the last blow against the Red Baron, and have tried adding various interesting extra achievements here and there, which I hope you guys appreciate.
As usual, feedback is welcome.
Posted: 11 Sep, 2013 22:24
You convinced me the opposite way with your argument for mithral achievements - I was slightly against them until you suggested that it rids the player of needing a walkthrough to chart their progress, now I'm all for them!
I think this is a fantastic, well-thought out write up that shows dedication and consideration, you really know what you're talking about! No casualties is a very interesting one, I love anything that encourages you to play the game differently - if you have to keep someone alive for a certain battle, you would definitely be encouraged to take things a little more carefully: not sacrificing anyone, focusing on your healing and medical herbs for example :)
I completely agree with the 'save is corrupt' thing, and yes, I got the spine chills when I first saw that message, especially because of the music they use, and the way the witch is looking at you, it spooked the hell out of me!! I agree with you for not going for it, mainly because I'd like to be able to port RA onto 'closed' or 'UI friendly' platforms, for example Android or Ouya. On these platforms I wouldn't like players to (have to) be messing around with savefiles, it's counter-enjoyable in my opinion, so I agree with you there.
I never knew about the Chirrup Sandals at the time when I was playing through in my youth, and I thought I knew everything about the game! No MP use might be hard to track, but I applaud you if you can do it! (I guess, resetif mem<deltamem on *all* MP values? Sounds painful but doable...)
Following on from the 'having all the mithral' achievement lines up similarly with 'doing all the promotions' and 'crafting all the special weapons'... it's definitely an interesting problem as we approach a bit of an achievement cap of sorts, and I'm not sure what the best way to solve it is. As the master of this game, I'd suggest that you Cirellio are the judge of which achievements are the most important. If you feel some achievements might be better off in unofficial instead, just let me know, I'll add a function so you can do this.
Sheela against the Red Baron I've always made sure of - and how's about BOWIE making the killing blow on Zeus ('Judgement')? Or Slade ('Repentance')?
Oh and yes definitely, Fairy Woods needs to be a leaderboard lol I can help with that when the time comes :)
Posted: 11 Sep, 2013 23:02
Well, I'm glad I took some time explaining some of my decisions then. Thanks for reading that giant wall of text.
"No MP use might be hard to track, but I applaud you if you can do it! (I guess, resetif mem<deltamem on *all* MP values? Sounds painful but doable...)"
Yep, that's exactly what I did!
"I never knew about the Chirrup Sandals at the time when I was playing through in my youth"
Me neither, and I even missed them on this playthrough.
"If you feel some achievements might be better off in unofficial instead, just let me know, I'll add a function so you can do this."
Yes, this would come in handy. Chrono Trigger was very easy to plan out 400 points for because I know the game like the back of my hand. With this game it was impossible to plan out effectively as I wasn't entirely sure how long the game was (and I've never beaten it). That said, I could definitely move the Recruit achievements to unofficial, particularly the mandatory ones. It is a bit redundant when you consider the promotion achievements require you to have the characters anyway.
I did go to a lot of trouble Photoshopping all of the character portraits to improve color saturation and smoothing out pixellation, I would hate for all that work to go to waste (so I'd move those portraits over to the promotion achievements instead).
"Sheela against the Red Baron I've always made sure of - and how's about BOWIE making the killing blow on Zeus ('Judgement')? Or Slade ('Repentance')? "
Great ideas! I will need to value hunt for this line of achievements but it will be worth it.
Posted: 26 Sep, 2013 04:12
The Shining Force II achievement list is now complete!
Sure, it may be completely out of order, and some of the pictures may be wrong. And many of the achievements may indeed need more testing, but they're all there, dangit! (And all of this will be fixed soon enough, including rounding off the number of points to 400.)
I could use some help playtesting these - especially given the length of the game and that no two playthroughs are ever the same.
Posted: 26 Sep, 2013 12:43
Thought I would give this game another go (tried years ago but always got distracted)
Posted: 26 Sep, 2013 14:01
Also these three...
...won't be working yet.
During this playthrough I will also be hunting for the hidden fairy battle values - I didn't even find the battle in my last playthrough, had to look it up in a FAQ and saw that I had already missed it :(
Posted: 26 Sep, 2013 14:36
What ROm were you using? I played on the U ROM. If the achievement
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